In an interview with CABAR.asia analytical platform, a musician, finalist of the 2021 Eurovision Song Contest, and UNHCR Russia Goodwill Ambassador Manizha Sangin spoke about the problem of violence against female migrants in Russia, their insecurity, and her new Foundation’s plans to help them.
According to the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation, in 9 months of 2021, almost 2.4 million citizens of Central Asian countries arrived in Russia to work (including as vehicles maintenance personnel). Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan are in the lead by this indicator.
Unfortunately, the authorities of the Central Asian countries and Russia do not track statistics (as can be judged by its absence from the public domain) on the migrants by gender and age. The latest available data is for 2016.
According to the data, most of the migrants from Central Asia to the Russian Federation are men. The largest share of women migrants is among the citizens of Kyrgyzstan – 38%. The share of female migrants from Uzbekistan and Tajikistan is 18% and 16% respectively. Most often, these are married women between the ages of 18 and 49.
According to the UN, women migrants are most vulnerable to gender discrimination, the threat of violence, and sexual exploitation. This year, singer Manizha together with her mother and producer Najiba Usmanova launched the SILSILA Foundation for Support and Protection of People in Difficult Life Situations. According to them, the Foundation will help women migrants in Russia who have faced violence.
In CABAR.asia interview, Manizha Sangin said she often receives messages from female migrants who have faced domestic violence. They do not know what rights they have, where to go, and what to do. Until recently, there were no crisis centres in Russia that would deal with domestic violence issues or difficult life situations of migrants, refugees, and people with no legal status.
I scrolled through your Instagram page back to the very beginning in 2012. You did not raise the issues of body acceptance, violence, etc. then. When did the social issues appear in your life and work?
Manizha Sangin: In fact, the story began much earlier, when I was a little child, and decided that I wanted to study music. I had a conversation with my mother, and she asked the most important question – why do you need this?
Najiba Usmanova: Manizha was a kid, and she had not studied music yet. I remember that we were walking along the Leningradsky Prospekt and she told me she wanted to become a singer. Then, in Tajikistan, where we came from, to be a singer meant to be an indecent woman. This meant that in the future, it would be difficult for her to build personal relationships, and the compatriots would be biased against her. I had to make an important decision. So, we walk, and she just says she wants to be a singer. She was a fan of Britney Spears then...
M.S.: And Natalia Oreiro (laughs).
N.U.: Yes. I say, “Why do you want to be a singer?” She replies, “I want to sing”. I ask, “Fine, but why do you need this?” She says, “I want to be famous”. I ask, “Well, when you become famous, then what?” She was confused for a second and answered, “I will help people!” Then I said, “This is a good attitude”.
M.S.: Mom was a practicing psychologist. When I returned home from school, there were clients, because we could not afford to rent a separate office. My mother always taught me to offer them tea or coffee. I brought them drinks while they were waiting for their turn, sat down next to them, and we talked a lot. In fact, such an atmosphere of mutual help surrounded me since childhood.
Later, when my musical career began, discussing painful problems was not acceptable practice. The times are much greater today than before.
When Instagram appeared, at first, it was perceived as an art gallery, and everyone tried to publish the best photos. I did not even think that someone could share the problems on Instagram. Although, I had a song “Ne tvoyo” [“Not yours” – Tr.] in my very first album, which clearly described abusive relationships.
Even before the first album, I said, “I want a [social] project like this.” We prepared a strategy, but everyone told me, “Wait, your audience is too small, be careful. You will implement big social projects when it expands.”
After a while, I suddenly realised that this ‘perfect’ Instagram world does not correspond to my real life, my real emotions, and my connection with the audience. I interacted with my audience a lot. I started with myself. I published my real photos, showed my real skin, performed on stage without makeup.
Then, people became interested and involved. I saw that they were ready for me to be as honest with them as possible. The projects appeared such as a campaign against domestic violence, a campaign for self-acceptance, and various projects that we are implementing together with UNHCR (since December 2020, Manizha has been a UN Refugee Agency Goodwill Ambassador - Ed.).
How does this affect your popularity? After all, social topics can scare people away.
M.S.: Of course, if I spoke less about social issues, and propagandised and sexualized my appearance more, I would be much more popular. However, it would be very difficult and uninteresting for me. It would be pointless to do this. Now, I understand – well, whatever, 10 thousand people have unsubscribed – so what?
When I start discussing something serious, people unsubscribe from my pages (laughs). I am already used to it. It is better when like-minded people stay with me. The number of like-minded people shows that, thank God, I raise various important issues not for nothing – it is not useless.
One of the issues you bring up is violence against women. You came to Kyrgyzstan as part of the 16 Days of Activism Against Gender-Based Violence as a founder of the Foundation for Support and Protection of People in Difficult Life Situations. Please tell us – when did it appear and when did you realise it was important for you to raise this particular issue?
M.S.: My mother and I are co-founders of the Foundation. In fact, we thought about launching the Foundation for a long time. You know, it takes a lot of time to create something good. It took about two years to create the music video for the song “Mama” and the SilSila application (to help the victims of domestic violence, which Manizha presented in February 2019 – Ed.).
To create Foundation, we have been working for a year and a half.
N.U.: Before that, we constantly provided individual assistance. Our friends and acquaintances began calling us ‘ambulance’.
People called me with different problems; to help them, Manizha used her connections and capabilities, while I used mine. We wanted to systematise this work. When we got the opportunity to work with Philgood Company, we spent over a year developing the working strategy, structure, methods, and communication plans in this area. We turned to the best specialists. This is an expensive project, but it is worth it.
*Philgood Company helps businesses and NGOs to implement socially significant projects. It helped to create “Podari Zhizn”, “Friends”, “Vera” Funds, “Nochlezhka” charitable organisation.
This June, we finalised the strategy of work, applied for registration, appointed co-founders – not outsiders, but like-minded people. When we received the final documents in mid-November, we could officially declare that we have a Foundation. On November 25, we started working in test mode.
Now, we are traveling with Manizha to learn. You have a very strong civil society in your country. It is the first time we see such active, wise, strong women who clearly understand what they are fighting for.
M.S.: Yes, we visited different regions. We are from Tajikistan, we were in the Caucasus, and it was a great surprise to see how the system of assistance is organised in Kyrgyzstan: what crisis centres exist, and how they have been working for many years.
You started working in this direction a long time ago, much earlier than the Foundation was established. Is it difficult to handle it emotionally and physically? This issue is complex – how deep do you engage each story?
M.S.: At first, I was very deeply engaged. However, I began, just like my mother, to treat this more professionally.
The performances on the stage taught me not only to abstract but also to be on an equal footing with different people – never feel sorry for them if they have problems. Compassion and pity are two different things.
I have always judged by myself. If I feel bad, I hate it when somebody sits down next to me and says, “Oh, poor thing!” I love it when people say, “Oh, listen, let us do this now”. That is, they help me to overcome a crisis through the actions. That is why I feel the same way about every story I have to deal with. There are a lot of them.
N.U.: It is impossible to engage and worry about every situation – you will burn out and will not be able to help. If doctors took every patient to heart, then emergency cases would often end in death.
All my life I have approached every crisis from the position “how can I solve the problem?” When you start thinking, you are already solving the problem. A helping attitude should be based on an understanding of the essence of the problem.
If a woman comes to you with a difficult problem, but you also start shedding tears... Measure that is much more effective is to find a solution together with her.
I know that you are going to visit Kazakhstan next, and this will be the end of your tour. Why did it not work out with Tajikistan and Uzbekistan?
M.S.: Due to a lack of time. We are still working closely with the Foundation in Moscow. However, we will do similar tours every six months.
Does it mean that you will visit Tajikistan and Uzbekistan next?
M.S.: Of course. We are already working online. I especially like that Uzbekistan has become very open, and this year, we participated in many interesting forums held there.
The situation is also improving in Tajikistan. Young people actively support the agenda, many interesting pages have appeared on social media, where people publish their paintings and talk about harassment. We see a strong trend towards joining efforts on this issue.
In an interview with Kommersant, you said that young women from Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan often send messages to you on Instagram about their stories and problems. Are these women in Russia migrants?
M.S.: Most often, yes. Most often, the women migrants address me.
The Foundation is focused on cultural diversity. We consider the cultural background of each woman and work with her based on cultural characteristics. A lawyer or psychologist speaks to her in her native language while in Moscow. We also take care of all the bureaucratic issues related to documents, because the most vulnerable group of women are those finding themselves in a difficult situation in a foreign country without documents. We also help to find healthcare specialists. We have partner clinics and doctors who are ready to help in an emergency.
What kind of stories do the women share most often?
M.S.: It would be wrong for me to specify the details. In general, these are the stories about husbands who beat women. Often, these women live with children in rented apartments, and they have nowhere to go – they do not know the shelters exist. In addition, not all shelters accept migrants – Russian citizens only; or they are often packed to capacity.
Women migrants often do not know their rights and are not able to develop a strategy to overcome a difficult situation independently. Often, I receive messages from women who are completely disoriented and do not understand what to do.
How do you feel when people contact you to tell these stories?
M.S.: In fact, we are very happy when a woman makes a decision and writes us because this is a very good sign. Most of these women cannot even speak about painful situations aloud. When they are ready to ask for help - “I cannot take it anymore, please help me!” – this is the first step to overcome the crisis. We are glad that women realise it is impossible to live as they used to.
Is there something personal in this fight against violence? In December 2020, you wrote on Instagram, “I can stand up for others, but I cannot stand up for myself”. What does it mean?
M.S.: It means many things in life (thinks this through).
Of course, there is a personal story, and it affected both my family and my friends. Unfortunately, there are people and families I personally know who are facing domestic violence. I always ask myself why. So many years have passed, we already know so much about this problem, but we still find ourselves in such relationships and continue to maintain them.
I know that you and your mother are helping Tajik families who live in Russia. Do you keep in touch with representatives of communities from other countries – Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan?
N.U.: Yes, we help Tajik families a lot. People know us there; Manizha is a hero for Tajikistan. They turn to us because we are famous. However, we receive messages from the Caucasus too. For example, a girl had a bad relationship in the family: her father beat her mother, but her mother did not want to leave. We found a hotel for her.
A young woman from Kyrgyzstan asked for money to leave for Moscow because she could not afford it and had serious problems. I transferred her money so that she could buy a ticket and told her my contact information.
We came here to learn and exchange experiences. We came to talk. To find common ground with someone, it is necessary to come and see how she/he lives, understand the cultural background, and then, come to an agreement.
There is a proverb “When in Rome do as the Romans do”. Trying to instill European values is not bad; it is not an order, but rather a suggestion. If it is not accepted, it is necessary to find another approach. Our task is to build different approaches and scenarios.
There are no crisis centres in Russia that would deal with domestic violence issues or difficult life situations of migrants, refugees, and people with no legal status.
M.S.: We came here not to present our Foundation. We gave ourselves some time to travel, to study, to learn, to expand and enhance opportunities.
Based on the results of your visit, can you tell how the cultural background of the Kyrgyz people differs from the cultural background of the Tajik people (that you know well)?
M.S.: I think that you have an educated community and brave people. The civil activities are organised here in such a way that is rarely found even in Moscow.
At the same time, we belong to the Central Asian region and our problems seem to be very similar...
M.S.: Yes, of course, our mentality is similar. However, we are inspired by how you work, how you have united – not only in the fight against domestic violence.
N.U.: The fact that girls are being stolen for marriage here shocked me. There is no such thing in Tajikistan. This practice is perceived as a normal tradition here. I think that we need to conduct explanatory works with men – to explain to them that relationships should not be built by means of violent actions. This is where it comes from.
I talked with Kyrgyz women a lot and felt that they fear the men of their own ethnicity. Then, I heard that if a woman goes to work, for example, to Moscow and dates a person of a different ethnicity there, she is subjected to violence in revenge, she can be raped. I was shocked. Now, I understand why the women from Kyrgyzstan are closed and insecure – they fear that their compatriots can find out any information, and the women will be lynched. This is scary.
According to your observations, where does the threat for migrants come from most often – from within (the family, compatriots), or from the outside (law enforcement agencies, officials, etc.)?
N.U.: First, the biggest threat is the financial situation of the family. I think if there were no financial problems in the family, the situation with the violence against the migrant women would have been better.
Coming to Moscow with a wife and children, a man applies for documents for himself, socialises, receives a status. To do the same for a wife means to spend additional money and, of course, he cannot always afford it. They do not earn enough to pay 10 thousand [rubles] every month for a patent, for registration. What if there is also a child? Amid this situation, the problems appear.
Again, everything is interconnected. Many women do not know their rights; they cannot send their children to school. Russia has a law according to which migrants’ children can officially study in schools, but this law is often ignored. You have to go through hell to achieve this.
In your opinion, how well does the legal framework of Russia consider migrants’ problems? Can a female migrant who has faced domestic violence go to the police to report it, and would they do something about it?
M.S.: If she has problems with documents, she is afraid to go to the police, because she may be deported back to her country. This inner insecurity makes a woman stay at home even when she faces domestic violence.
What if she does not have problems with the documents, would they help?
M.S.: I do not want to speak for the police – I have seen different situations. There were positive situations when women received help. It depends on the legislation – there is no law on victim protection. This complicates the process of helping victims. The police can help at a single moment, but what will happen, if there is no order of protection?
In 2019, you launched the SilSila application. Do you have any data on how many people have used it during this time? Is there a breakdown by citizens of the Russian Federation and other countries?
M.S.: This is confidential information. We will break the law if we receive this data. We have the statistics of downloads, the number of users without clarifications. For three years, it is about 100 thousand.
What problems do migrants in Moscow raise? What is important to them?
M.S.: They need food and work.
N.U.: Many of them believe, and it is so in 90% of cases, that lack of work is the key reason for their conflicts and fights in the family. They do not address us to resolve this issue but to find employment opportunities.
Sometimes they write, “Thank you for speaking with me. I have no money to pay for the apartment, can you send the money?” I am sending some amount. Next message, “Can you find me a job?” Women often work as house cleaners, babysitters, or in the kitchen. The work for them is a way out of abusive relationships. They do not need a divorce, but an opportunity to improve the relationship.
Do they raise only economic issues – employment, earnings – during such conversations? Do they talk about violence at all or only in personal conversations?
M.S.: Never.
N.U.: Only in personal conversations.
M.S.: Rarely. There are so many barriers to overcome before people can talk about it.
What kind of barriers?
N.U.: This is one of the tasks of our psychologists and specialists working with people. We all were told: do not wash your dirty linen in public. I, too, had a difficult relationship for a long time, when I could not tell my mother about it. I was ashamed to tell what was happening to me.
The women migrants were taught the same things. We all were taught that way. Violence is a taboo subject. Only when you tell about your experience - “Yes, I had a similar relationship, I understand” – it becomes a little easier.
Our task with Manizha is to teach people to speak up, to share it. We learned to share food, hospitality, but we did not learn to share grief.
How can it be done? One has to do a lot of work on him/herself to come to a psychologist and start solving problems.
N.U.: Visiting a psychologist is not traditional for our cultures, do you agree? Previously, people went to mullah to talk. This is the only thing allowed in our traditional culture. If a woman comes to her mother-in-law and tells her about her husband, she will not be always supported. In the Caucasus, no one will tell you anything. These features are the key to opening the locks. If we know how to open them, how to approach women, they will share their problems, their grief.
When you have shared your problems, it is easier for you and others. Someone else’s experience can also be an example.
Therefore, Manizha is a great example for many migrant women. I am proud of her. We went a long way from refugees to high status and fame in Russia. This is a huge and difficult path. We walked it with the whole family, and we got there. Now, I believe that we can help and explain it to others.
How long does it take for migrants’ children to become freer and understand that violence is bad?
M.S.: In fact, the current path is much faster, because there are many platforms for communication – even TikTok that children keep watching.
The younger generation is much more advanced than mine was. They have more knowledge, freedom, and clearly understand the agenda. Therefore, there is a hope that the new generation will face fewer problems of violence, or, at least, understand what to do.
Our task is, first, to explain the ways to overcome and get out of such situations, as well as to create a large information field around the problem of violence through art and education. We should constantly inform people so that they understand that the problem of violence exists in the world and it is possible to get out of it – there are examples and guidelines. Then, turning 360 degrees, you understand: I have a place to go.
If you or someone you know have faced violence, you can contact the SILSILA Foundation for help by filling out this form or at sos@silsila.help