In a CABAR.asia interview, Ms Sukhjargalmaa Dugersuren, Head of the National Gender Experts’ Group at the National Committee on Gender Equality of Mongolia, shared important observations about the social and economic situation in Mongolia, the role of women in society and culture, and the challenges they face amid global climate change.
Ms Sukhjargalmaa Dugersuren is an independent consultant on gender, civil society, and development for the Central Asia Regional Economic Cooperation (CAREC) programme. This November, Astana hosted the “Gender and Climate-2024” Business Forum, where she kindly agreed to speak to CABAR.asia.
Her extensive experience includes working in governmental and international structures on numerous programmes and laws in her home country. Sukhjargalmaa is one of the main authors of Mongolia’s NGO Law (adopted in 1997) and the main author of the Gender Equality Law (adopted in 2011).
As President of LEOS, one of the largest women’s organisations (1996-1998), as well as a board member of several other women’s, human rights, and development CSOs, Sukhjargalmaa has extensive experience working with the country’s civil society.
CABAR.asia: Your country underwent significant changes in recent decades. How has this affected life in rural and urban areas?
Sukhjargalmaa Dugersuren: The difference between rural and urban life in Mongolia is very great. In the early 1990s, when major shifts occurred, the government failed to implement policies that would effectively support rural residents and promote their development. This led many people to migrate to the cities. Today, almost half of the population lives in one city, Ulaanbaatar, and about 60% of the city’s residents are newcomers. This, in turn, demonstrates major economic and social problems in our country.
– You also mentioned the term ‘tyranny of space’. Can you explain its meaning?
– This term was originally used to describe problems in African countries, but it is also suitable for Mongolia. When a country has a large territory and a small population, it can be difficult for the government to provide access to services in remote areas.
In Mongolia, we face this problem. Our civil organisations are not so developed that they could help in the delivery of services and monitoring of the state programmes’ implementation. This creates difficulties in providing normal social services, especially in remote areas. In the 1990s, this led to a sharp increase in maternal and child mortality, but now, the situation is improving.
– What are the main problems the women and children face living in rural areas of your country?
– We still largely retain a nomadic lifestyle. Livestock breeder families move twice a year from summer to winter. These people face many problems, especially women, who play an important role in the household, but their labour often goes unnoticed. The needs of these women are not given as much attention as they should be. A woman livestock breeder in our country performs unpaid work. She does a huge amount of work, but her labour is not properly appreciated. This must be changed.
We see many problems of rural families with children. Since livestock breeders are scattered over a large area, they live in groups of one or two families. They have to send their children to boarding schools. We introduced education from the age of six, and six-year-olds are small children, so a woman has to leave her husband in the pasture and come to the district centre to live there, near the school. The children, in turn, have to leave home and live in district centres near the school or study in boarding schools. This creates serious difficulties for families, especially women, because they leave their homes, husbands, and families, and then have to organise their lives in a new place.
– What other social and gender issues exist in your country?
– Women’s participation in decision-making remains one of the main problems. We see that the higher the level of power, the fewer women there are in leadership positions. For example, in the civil service, if we exclude teachers and doctors, 70% are women, but in the top leadership positions, they make up only about 30%. The higher the level, the more the number of women decreases. For example, primary school teachers are almost 100% women. The further we go up the stairs of the education system, the more men there are. Men occupy 80% of the top positions, which, of course, limits women’s access to influencing key decisions, which is a serious problem for equality.
Still, the social problems, the problems with human rights, with violence against women, are the same as in other countries.
Our very first research on gender-based violence in Mongolia was conducted in 2017. In general, there is no big difference compared to global indicators. What was interesting was that 60% of rural women said that the husband has the right to be angry if the wife does not obey him, and whether he is right or wrong, it is necessary to obey him. Well, okay, 60% of rural women feel that way, but it turned out that 45% of urban women do too. That is a lot. In other words, traditional values are generally preserved.
One of the biggest problems women face now is women’s property rights. For example, I asked our banks’ employees – how they issue loans to women, maybe on some preferential terms. They said they were trying. I asked if they issue them loans without collateral. They answer, “No, we are just now trying to solve this issue”. There is a big problem behind it. Who is the owner of the property? Most often, traditionally, it is the man. Women, on the other hand, do not own property.
– Could you please tell us how climate change affects Mongolia?
– Climate change is not bypassing any country, unfortunately. It is very difficult for us because we already have a dry, arid climate. In recent years, droughts and fodder shortages, both in winter and summer, have become more frequent.
– How do people solve this issue, what do they feed the livestock? What does the government do? Are there any initiatives, who is helping?
– The government always has a programme; they have an emergency stock of fodder and everything else. Non-governmental organisations also help. However, in these conditions, countering such phenomena is more of a systemic work. Once we privatised livestock, and our cattle breeders started to consider what was more profitable. They started to breed more goats for cashmere and wool. And goats are the most unsuitable animals for the pastures. This way, they lost the balance. To change this, livestock breeders need another source of income. This is beyond the power of the livestock breeders themselves, especially women. To solve this problem, women cattle breeders must have access to preferential loans.
– Is there any progress in your country on gender equality, for example, in the judiciary or other areas?
– Yes, we observe the progress in women’s participation in the judiciary and advocacy. There are many more women in our judiciary and advocacy than in other countries of the region. This is a positive aspect that is worth protecting and developing. For example, just as almost 99% of primary school teachers in the education system are women, we also have many women judges and women lawyers in the judiciary. This is an important step towards gender equality.
I believe we must continue to support this trend. The more women there are in respected professions, the more there will be women’s representation and progress at all levels, including political and economic.
Now, we have many initiatives, especially from the younger generation. The drivers, those who push social change, positive change, are always civil society representatives. They are criticised, they are pressured, they are not given funds, they are called all sorts of names, but it is usually them.
– You mentioned that there are some aspects of Mongolian culture that differ significantly from the accepted traditional roles of a man and a woman, for example, in Central Asian countries.
– Yes, one of the positive traditions that persist in our society is the leading role of women in the family and household. Mongolian women, like all others, often carry the full cycle of economic life. This is important because women have not only labour but also economic rights, which gives them a greater degree of independence. We still have this tradition, and it contributes to the development of our country.
Of course, women livestock breeders face difficulties related to illiteracy, lack of property rights, and unpaid labour. However, at the same time, we should note that in traditional Mongolian society, women have certain rights and leadership qualities. We have our traditional culture, our own – Mongolian culture, which has one positive aspect. When a family of a man and a woman lives alone, and the society is not visible somewhere within 100, 200, 300 kilometres, there is more of a partnership relationship between the spouses. That is, there is respect between them and teamwork. Men are well involved in family life.
Even since the Middle Ages, I think, all travellers who visited Mongolia wrote that the Mongolian woman is incredible. She carries the full cycle of economic life. When she was not married, she also had economic rights. She could sell cattle, buy cattle. This has never been seen in any Asian society. These positive aspects remain to this day.
Our countries share the same political past, which they tried very hard to ‘fix’, and I would not like us to start to think that we must accept it. No. The Mongolian People’s Republic, which existed until 1992, did a lot to bring women out of the yurt, to make them doctors, teachers, geologists, physicists, human rights activists, lawyers, to obtain any profession. This is something that we must necessarily protect. To protect it, depending on what decisions the government makes, and what laws are applied.
– What gender equality programmes and laws are in force in Mongolia? What is the situation with women’s leadership? Does the state support their initiatives?
– It is an interesting question. I personally participated in the drafting of the law on gender equality in 2007-2008. After I left, the process continued, and the law was adopted in 2011. That is a great achievement. We have an effective national gender structure – the Committee on Gender Equality, chaired by the Prime Minister.
In the process of drafting the law, we found out that the gender issue remained an ‘orphan’: it was not included in any ministerial portfolio or state programme. Then, we outlined clear responsibilities in the law.
– Was it the law on gender equality?
– Yes, the law was adopted in 2011. Today at the forum, we talked a lot about people who drive this issue forward. For example, the secretariat of the National Committee employed women who were nothing short of heroes. They moved forward despite obstacles, be it misunderstandings on the part of ministers or pressure. Some people give up quickly, but they do not. They pushed for the decisions they proposed. This is exactly an example of women’s leadership.
– Are there many women like that in Mongolia?
– Yes, there are many of them. Everyone has her own approach. Some are tough and persistent – like a tank, moving forward until they reach their goal. If their initiative is not accepted today, they will come back tomorrow. Others find softer methods, using humour or diplomacy. But the bottom line is the same – it is a large human potential.
– Despite the achievements, are there any problems with the implementation of this law?
– Of course, there are difficulties with its implementation. The law details the responsibilities of all structures: the parliament, the government, the judiciary, the National Human Rights Committee, political parties, NGOs, and civil society.
For example, political parties are required to submit a gender report every two years, and parliament is required to hear a government report on the implementation of the law. However, after the law was adopted in 2011, the first parliamentary hearing did not take place until 2021 – 10 years later. This demonstrates that implementing the law in practice takes time and requires constant monitoring.
– How do you see the future for women in Mongolia and our region as a whole?
– I hope that in the future, we will be able to achieve greater gender equality, especially at the level of political and economic decision-making. It will take time and effort, but I am sure that every year, we will see more and more women actively participating in the life of the country and influencing processes. This is important for the whole society because diversity in decision-making always brings better results.